Thursday, October 27, 2005

Ned's Ultimate Banner of Heaven thread...

We'll all soon be sick to death of the Banner of Heaven talk (and many already are, I'm sure), so I thought I'd get my licks in now.

I think what bothers me most is that my sense of community has been violated. By Common Consent, Kulturblog, and Banner of Heaven were some of my favorite places to hang out. I was looking forward to meeting my fellow bloggers at Steve Evans' Thanksgiving party. Suddenly, I don't feel like doing any of these things, Steve's half-hearted apologies aside. I'm the idiot because I actually thought I had a connection with these people.

Do I want an apology? No, I'd prefer not to get one. If someone apologizes, you have to forgive them or else you're the jerk, no matter what they did.

Steve Evans-- for someone who has spent so much time helping form this bloggernacle community, it is odd, to say the least, that you are so blase about crapping all over it. That's all.

I'll get over it soon enough; it's not that big of deal. But are these people going to be my friends? No, and that's what sucks the most.

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

Ned - many people feel the same way you do. And I think Steve and his friends know that. I'm not sure if they care much at all, but they have lost a great deal of respect from many participants in the bloggernacle. Whether or not we accept their apologies, no one likes to be the butt of a joke, especially the butt of an inside joke, and even more especially, the butt of an inside joke perpetrated by elite members of an organization. You feel left out, you feel stupid. And you're embarrassed that you even care about it in the first place.

On the other hand, I'm sure you have enough friends to keep you busy without resorting to people who enjoy manipulating you for laughs. But I think you should let Steve make you dinner to make up for him being an asshole. That turkey better be good.

Ronan said...

Ned,

We need Thanksgiving, man. I want to meet you. And Steve's promised to show Revenge of the Sith on big screen. And I'm going to cry when the Clones kill the Jedis, and we're all going to hug, and all will be forgiven, and there will be much love. Don't disabuse me of that!

K.D. Clement said...

I'm not a big reader of Bloggernacle blogs, but I do like to read your blog from time to time, Ned- And Various Stages of Mormondom. I checked out the blogs you mentioned and I am entirely mystified. What exactly happened? Were they all playing at a massive hoax-a bunch of friends having fun pretending to be certain voices in the mormon conversation?

If that is so, I totally sympathize with your anger. No matter how you slice it, it all smacks of dishonesty and corruption. They could say we are all psuedonyms in a pseudo world here in bloggerland, but I don't buy it. There should be some integrity in how one represents themselves-whether they use a pseudonym or not.

For awhile now I've wondered about the whole blog thing and whether it really is a healthy spiritual outlet. A lot of the mormon blogs I've read seem to be written by those who look at their religion as a hobby of sorts. Especially considering the shenanigans as those at Banner of Heaven.

It sickens me.

I like your blog because you are honest and authentic. It appears some of the bloggernacle participants are not. I'm sorry they've hurt you so much.

NFlanders said...

Ronan-- I hope we do meet someday. We don't even have to discuss the EPL if it's too painful for you.

K.D.-- The short version of the story is that some people from real Mormon blogs decided to post at a fake blog (Banner of Heaven) under made-up identities. They did this to test out their writing skills and just generally have fun. And it WAS fun, at the time. The problem is that they didn't care that people were taking their fake posts seriously, and investing time and energy at the site.

I don't want to make a bigger deal out of this than it is. For the record, I think all of the fake bloggers are good people and are serious about their belief in the Church (not that these are related in any way). I genuinely like all of them, though I doubt we are going to be best friends forever.

I don't think the poor judgment of a few bloggers should sour us on the wider world of Mormon blogging, which I think can be a very healthy thing. For me personally, discussing all things Mormon has helped me immensely, and I hope the bloggernacle thrives in spite of this hiccup.

I feel more hurt than I should simply because I spent a lot of time at their site and they kept up the farce for six months.

Stephen said...

I feel more hurt than I should simply because I spent a lot of time at their site and they kept up the farce for six months.

I think the real problem with it all is that it was hard to tell if one of the posters was over the top in faking it or just mentally ill ... etc.

There is another group of blogs without any where near the same exposure, that is quite obviously a satire/LDS soap opera that has not stirred up this sort of thing.

Of course the fact that they got a BCC link and cross-exposure and publicity drove the "reality" of the site and the traffic.

But the problem is that they encouraged visitors to become engaged, which is what leads to the sense of betrayal invovled by many.

I always kept hedging my bets, if that makes any sense. As a result, I did not visit a lot, did not invest much energy and read it for entertainment, though I was careful with my posts in case the people were real, but just strange though coherent.

The person I feel sorry for is the guest blogger whose post is the last post before the coming out of the closet party.

The participants got addicted to the feedback. In a project like that one, part of what keeps it from entanglement is that the posters do not engage the audience at any substantive level.

This group did.

Luckily my blog doesn't get read much or I'd find myself taking down my current post, which while I wrote it before the blow-up, reads as would a very harsh criticism of the entire mess.

The issues are reprised, which are that there is now the sense that an inner circle was formed to exclude and exploit the rest of us.

Anonymous said...

Ned,

You got some splaining to do . . .

Davis

NFlanders said...

Davis-- I am genuinely mystified. What do you mean? I hope I didn't offend you somehow.

Pris said...

Ned, I feel much the same way. I wrote quite a bit on my blog trying to figure out what exactly it was that bothered me. But you're right: BCC and KB were two of my favorite sites around here.

HP said...

Ned, in the brief moments that DKL's AKA plugin was up at BoH, it indicated that your IP address also was used to post as Stephen M (Ethesis) and as Steve EM. I believe that it is this that Davis was referring to (and it explains, perhaps, why you are Dave were asked to be posters there (although I do think that you write good posts)). I don't know if it is a bug (I got identified as people whom I don't remember posting as). Stephen M has strongly denied being you (so you know). Nonetheless it is, um, odd.

So you know, I have a tendancy to believe that you are all actually three distinct people. There may have been some shenanigous posting or something. If this isn't the case, please post more as Ned. I like him much more than I like the other two personae.

Anonymous said...

ned,

i mean about the BOH allegations that you have 3 personas.

Davis

NFlanders said...

It has to be a bug (I wasn't around when the plugin was turned on so I don't know who it said I also was). I used to post from an AOL account; perhaps it can't differentiate between different users.

Although my responses would have been funny instead of just sad if this were true, let me just state for the record that I have never posted under anyone else's name in the bloggernacle (besides the occasional anonymous comment about sensitive topics). I am certainly not Steve EM or Stephen M.

J. Stapley said...

Kaimi at T&S has explained how the pluggin shows that many people are many people. It is confounded.

Susan M said...

I had lunch a couple weeks ago with someone from the Bloggernacle. Him and his wife and 2yo daughter met me at an Italian restaurant near my work. I was worried they'd turn out to be the snobby LA/Hollywood types, and that the restaurant they chose would be some ritzy expensive place (not my scene at all). But it was a dive, and they were completely cool, down to earth, just awesome people.

He also happens to be SeptimusH.

I think you should go to the TG party. Steve's a good guy and I think you'd feel better about the whole thing if you go.

NFlanders said...

I think you're right, Susan.

I just want to publicly announce that I am officially over it. I've had a couple conversations over email, and I think that the participants feel bad about how things turned out and are doing their best to rectify things. They are all nice people and I really can't hold a grudge against them.

annegb said...

Septimus is married????Well, no way am I fixing him up with my daughter!

You know, I'm easy, you apologize, I say, "it's okay." I guess I forgive. But I don't forget. I think we should so get this guys where they live. Think about it.

And...I have DKL's work address.

a random John said...

annegb,

I wish I still lived in Boston so I could personally deliver a package from you to DKL. I am glad to see that you and Ned are taking this well. I also had a lot of time invested in BoH, and many of my comments assumed the reality of the posters there. I didn't know it was fake until earlier this week, but I had been compiling compelling evidence for some time, for which I was made to feel bad.

In any case it obviously got a little out of control and I think everyone involved feels horrible about that. I think it is a relief to them that it ended when it did, though they did have some stories to wrap up.

As far as I can tell no harm was intended though harm was done. I am taking the attitude that I got to paticipate in something that was fun. I don't feel that I was the butt of a joke. I enjoyed my participation there when I thought it was real and when I was pretty sure that it wasn't. Knowing that it was "fake" doesn't change the fact that I enjoyed it though I recognize that others might feel differently.

Rusty said...

Ned,
You will be there for Thanksgiving, I command you! (The day AFTER Thanksgiving I mean, that's the one I'll be at).

Anonymous said...

Hey, Ned - I think you have every right to be angry, but I'm glad you're over it. Thanks for writing this post! These things needed to be said. Hope you have a nice Thanksgiving.

Stephen said...

I like him much more than I like the other two personae.

Ouch.

What happened is that AOL uses a bundle of IP addresses and assigns them as people log on. As a result, if you use AOL, you will eventually use an IP address used by someone else (well, every time you log on, but you know what I mean).

Two months apart, Ned and I got assigned the same IP number, once each. Teach me to borrow my five year old's computer (she uses AOL as a browser, I use firefox through our server).

Anyway, for a brief time BOH was listing Ned, Steve EM and I as the same person.

I'm a real person, in Texas. I've a huge on-line and real life identity, years and years old.

Ned is somewhere in the East. Steve EM I'm willing to believe is a personae of cyberspace ... ;) (that's a joke, a joke).

The only thing Ned and I have in common, besides beautiful wives, is that we both know how to use white space when we post.

Anyway, in the rush to judgment, Davis jumped over a shark and assumed too much. Maybe he will come back and apologize/explain. Probably not. Heck, I don't visit that often. Just wanted to follow up on this post.

Anonymous said...

"Anyway, in the rush to judgment, Davis jumped over a shark and assumed too much. Maybe he will come back and apologize/explain. Probably not. Heck, I don't visit that often. Just wanted to follow up on this post."

Explanation: I saw that Ned was being listed has Stephen and Steve EM. While willing to acknowledge that other explanations may exist, I assumed he was guilty of the same deception perpetrated at BOH.

Apology: I'm sorry.

Thanksgiving party? In NYC? Hmm. My invitation must be in the mail. Yeah. Just in the mail or something.

Davis

HP said...

Stephen,
I apologize for my ill thought comment. You certainly have done nothing wrong in all of this. I was trying to express that I like Ned (and that, usually, I find Steve EM annoying). You got caught in the crossfire. That said, it was a stupid, mean-spirited thing to say. I am a jerk for having said it. I am sorry.

Stephen said...

I apologize for my ill thought comment.

I was just trying to tease, gently.

Guess I failed.

Ned and I are different enough that I'd expect people to have preferences ... anyway, on to the next post with everyone smiling.

annegb said...

Did anybody get the parody of Miranda's hatred of DKL as representative of the irrational meanness directed toward him a lot of the time?

JKS said...

The BoH deception was what it was. It was a bad choice that affected quite a few people, including me. It soured me a little on the sincerity of blogs.
It wasn't the worst thing it the world. Time passes, its easy to move on. I was never really angry, and never very hurt since I was only a casual reader of BoH. But it bothered me.
The perpetrators are, I assume, nice people in other ways. Most nice people make mistakes like this, and eventually they feel sorry for it. I'm glad they realized their folly.
It happened. And bloglife for some of us is irreversibly changed. But, life goes on, and it becomes simply another story in our lives.

Steve EM said...

Oh come-on guys. We all knew at least some of Banner was fake early-on, turned out the whole thing was. I had fun there. And BCC is the true farce, a bunch of religious orthodox masquerading as free thinkers. I'll confess, it was a shocker to me that some of the elites were behind the hoax. I’m amazed vertically challenged Steve didn't ban me from Banner long ago.

For the record, I am real, have left more than enough bread crumbs for someone to peg me who cared to and am grateful than any who know me haven’t revealed it. In short, I'm active, enjoy my calling, want to keep my temple recommend and certainly wish to avoid those Strengthening the Members Committee bastards. Gosh, I hope that horrible group is dissolved when BKP passes on.

Steve EM said...

annegb,

I sure feel dumb now having called DKL a shithead for dumping on Miranda.

Anonymous said...

[url=http://tdska.msk.ru/go.php?sid=46][img]http://8testi.ru/images/5.jpg[/img][/url]

Good evening all!! We want to offer you our unique shop online "[url=http://buydrugs.hostaim.com/]buy Levitra[/url]".
With us you can buy viagra belize
at the lowest prices. Our product is very high quality and proven expertise


>>>>[b][url=http://tdska.msk.ru/go.php?sid=46]Online Levitra[/url][/b]<<<<


*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*


oral jelly kamagra
cialis denavir flonase myonlinemeds biz
generic viagra rx
order propecia online from dreampharmace
levaquin package insert
viagra billiger
order evista online dream pharmaceutical
viagra rezeptpflicht УЖsterreich
cialis free sample
viagra vom arzt
levaquin gram positive cocci
oral viagra kamagra
drug generic generic viagra
buy tadalafil citrate
90 cialis generic
order lipitor online
cialis best price buy online
viagra mg
zithromax batmud
cialis europe get
anxiety and impotence
cialis drug for erectile dysfunction
cialis in bangkok
drink called mexican viagra
viagra energy drink
using viagra with cialis
order cialis
order propecia pill
who owns viagra
cialis columbus lawyer
cialis experimentation
easy on line viagra
levaquin swollen joints
order viagra 1
cialis kaufen schweiz
cialis bathtub advertisement
cialis tablet
viagra warnings
oral pain coumadin
women impotence
cialis attractive brunette levitra ad
levaquin quick results
levaquin missing a dose
cialis for women
levaquin induced tendonitis treatment pe
levaquin in pregnancy
levaquin sun exposure
viagra bestellen holland
viagra maximum dose
cialis drug interaction




[url=http://www.jguru.com/jguru/guru/view.jsp?EID=1534152]viagra risiko[/url]
[url=http://drugs.indieword.com/view/buy-viagra-canada]cialis peyronie[/url]

Related searches:
[url=http://www.baanbang.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1326]order plavix 75 mg online[/url]
[url=http://mpf.com.pk/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1265848179/0]cialis per nachname[/url]
[url=http://kredison.com/bbs//zboard.php?id=test&page=1&page_num=20&select_arrange=headnum&desc=&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&keyword=&no=57&category=%253E]levaquin gram negative rods[/url]
[url=http://www.camperland.com.au/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1265842918/0]tadalafil generic tabs[/url]
[url=http://groovyduck.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1265846855/0]cialis for sale in dublin[/url]
[url=http://www.cupm.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1265846101/0]viagra mit wasser einnehmen[/url]
[url=http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3864364&postID=8920428422832308909&page=0&token=1265843739511_AIe9_BELjK3nIYAjSJSTQwZJ5amh61karam03sD5KlslLxcTaOhbEHfE2ZnMZJeSk3xDepjq2gri_CFJy3Qc5S54nQPBBTxwnugl0kmLMIpbSnMhtDRss7675X_YjlDOtGvodyQL0NrwRtIfRj14LoQbJ1Ur3sTtETsk8ze5MLiFb_Fem3G6hqC8LXPBlMZzzhaf658HegfcaE37sY5q_tKgw9JgxonTTgQkXzW1umAvf1tSRrKxGi4]order detrol la[/url]
[url=http://finetgpnetwork.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1265844210/0]viagra results photos[/url]
[url=http://www.cabinetsavocats.com/forum/index.php?action=vthread&forum=10&topic=345&page=9669#msg458198]cialis 8 stУМck[/url]
[url=http://forum.poker.com/member.php?u=46668]german viagra substitutes[/url]