tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post114714477467033029..comments2023-10-31T07:13:33.019-04:00Comments on VivaNedFlanders: Guest Post: What's Next?NFlandershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11284950332573759898noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-74843178453638280412008-01-14T01:49:00.000-05:002008-01-14T01:49:00.000-05:00Thank you, Deliza and Rob for your comments. I lov...Thank you, Deliza and Rob for your comments. I love that google still brings people to old posts like this one. I will have to check out that book, Rob.NFlandershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11284950332573759898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-14236941141113282652008-01-12T08:29:00.000-05:002008-01-12T08:29:00.000-05:00Really interesting discussions here. Thanks for t...Really interesting discussions here. Thanks for the ideas and opinions. May I suggest that you read Tom Harpur's book, Water into Wine? He's a former Anglican minister with great insight into both the Old and New Testament. Instead of taking everything so literally, he explains the Bible with such incredible insight, relevant to today's world, leaving behind the prejudices we've been taught by established religions. Do yourselves a great favour and read it.<BR/>RobRobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01219105081566554535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-46866541999134557092007-11-12T10:10:00.000-05:002007-11-12T10:10:00.000-05:00to continue on the pastor Pearson situation, was'n...to continue on the pastor Pearson situation, was'nt the same thing that happen to Jesus - wasn't he the one who stretched the jewish religion and was also looked at as a heretic.... I do not believe that one human bein have the truth about God, it is all of our responsibility to search it out for ourselves, so if you are having doubt - you should be speaking to God and find out how you must feel..the doubt that you are feeling is the beginning of a personal relationship with God, you may think of it as doubt but it may be guilt, guilt that you are looking at the inside of you for the answers instead of you human leaders - but as is said "greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world"Deborahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08556545599854196715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-52430251892109595792007-11-12T10:03:00.000-05:002007-11-12T10:03:00.000-05:00I do not know much about LDS, but I just heard abo...I do not know much about LDS, but I just heard about Pastor Pearson's story on BET and wanted to know more about him and found your blog... I believe that God talks to all of us individually and we forget and serve our religion and not serve God - so I think that you and all of us should look for an individual relationship with God and hear what he have to say about us... and work with it - but it seems that if you listen to God and not to man you would be looked at as a heretic....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-1147820249129991982006-05-16T18:57:00.000-04:002006-05-16T18:57:00.000-04:00MVM,Hey, I'm a Magic Valley Mormon, too (born and ...MVM,<BR/><BR/>Hey, I'm a Magic Valley Mormon, too (born and raised in Twin Falls).<BR/><BR/>Anyway, you're exactly right. Being a Latter-day Saint is without question more about who you are more than what you do, especially if you were born and raised in the church. The church has informed and influenced virtually every aspect of my life. Mormonism is an unerasable part of my identity and my heritage. That's never going to change--regardless of what I believe.<BR/><BR/>Hopefully that helps explain why I would still want to be part of something I have lost my faith in.<BR/><BR/>Also, please be careful about questioning the reasons or motives for my disbelief--you simply don't know enough about me or my circumstances to do that. I would never presume to second guess or question your beliefs, and I would ask that you extend the same courtesy to me and others like me.<BR/><BR/>In reality, the reason for my angst has everything to do with my loss of faith, and not the other way around.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-1147753051166464652006-05-16T00:17:00.000-04:002006-05-16T00:17:00.000-04:00I guess I don't understand the desire to be a part...I guess I don't understand the desire to be a part of something that you profess to have lost faith in.<BR/><BR/>Is the pull to be in "full fellowship" just a desire for the social aspects of your church relationships, or is it something more? <BR/><BR/>Being a Latter Day Saint is exactly that: being. It is much more than pot lucks and boy scout camp. It is more than the things you do, it is who you are. <BR/><BR/>A Latter Day Saint's wedding in the temple is more than just the "I do" of a civil union. The tenets of LDS faith mean that saying "yes" over that altar has eternal consequences.<BR/><BR/>It appears to me that the reason for your angst has nothing to do with a loss of faith. Perhaps that is why it was lost in the first place.Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016275707476655364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-1147631230537086892006-05-14T14:27:00.000-04:002006-05-14T14:27:00.000-04:00Thanks for sharing your story, Square Peg. Bursti...Thanks for sharing your story, Square Peg. Bursting the Mormon Bubble is tough, not only socially but we also need to rebuild our understanding of the world. All the best to you!Hellmuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01666302780491649128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-1147537602183605662006-05-13T12:26:00.000-04:002006-05-13T12:26:00.000-04:00Square, I don't know about that. A temple recomme...Square, I don't know about that. A temple recommend is pretty much a requirement for a guy for a position of influence, but there are really very few things that call for a temple recommend.<BR/><BR/>The only real place the lack of a TR impacts plain old Mormons is for weddings. And I am a firm believer in making lemonade from that particular lemon. Our children know our hearts, and we know theirs, and we will be there in their hearts, and they in ours, when they are married, whether we are physically present or not.Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07636304888031546405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-1147357066424334172006-05-11T10:17:00.000-04:002006-05-11T10:17:00.000-04:00Seth,Interesting analogy, but I think there's one ...Seth,<BR/><BR/>Interesting analogy, but I think there's one crucial difference between feeling accepted in the church and feeling accepted in a foreign country.<BR/><BR/>You simply can't be a fully-active, fully-participating member of the church unless you hold a temple recommend. And you can't hold a temple recommend unless you believe (or at least pretend to believe) the core foundational claims of the church.<BR/><BR/>I can be 100% orthopraxic, but unless I <I>believe</I> certain things, I'll never be in "full fellowship." That's just how it is. A positive attitude can certainly affect and improve my experience as a participating non-believer, but it can never overcome that barrier. Only belief can do that, and that's the one thing I lack.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-1147318082645370512006-05-10T23:28:00.000-04:002006-05-10T23:28:00.000-04:00Beijing, it's about letting go of expectations, no...Beijing, it's about letting go of expectations, not suppressing the needs.<BR/><BR/>It's likely, though, that if I remain open to whatever may come, something good may come. It may not, but if it does, I'm glad, and if it doesn't, I'm not disappointed.Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07636304888031546405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-1147311809285578992006-05-10T21:43:00.000-04:002006-05-10T21:43:00.000-04:00On my mission, we had a young single Japanese woma...On my mission, we had a young single Japanese woman as an investigator.<BR/><BR/>During a lesson, the conversation turned to more general topics, like future plans, etc.<BR/><BR/>She asked me if I would ever consider living in Japan. I said no. I didn't kid myself that I would be anything more than an exotic gaijin (foreigner). I was pretty sure I would never REALLY be accepted into Japan's homogenous society and I said so.<BR/><BR/>She looked at me thoughtfully and then said "well, if that's how you see it, that will become your reality."<BR/><BR/>Suddenly, my conclusions about Japan really didn't seem to so clear-cut anymore.<BR/><BR/>Seth R.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-1147275256906762362006-05-10T11:34:00.000-04:002006-05-10T11:34:00.000-04:00"let go of my needs - the need to belong, the need..."let go of my needs - the need to belong, the need to be understood, the need to be valued for what I am, rather than devalued for what I am not"<BR/><BR/>Ann, are these needs that should be let go of? I can understand that church doesn't fulfill all (or perhaps any) of them right now, but it can still be worth going to church for other reasons. But it seems like women who spend all day caring for others' needs, and who are inclined toward depression, need to be very conscious about fulfilling those needs *somehow,* rather than allowing their needs to be more fully ignored and themselves to be further erased.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-1147216818175875522006-05-09T19:20:00.000-04:002006-05-09T19:20:00.000-04:00"The honest seeker of truth has nothing to fear." ..."The honest seeker of truth has nothing to fear." <BR/><BR/>--William James (I think).BBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14944130819525182514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-1147207664582798132006-05-09T16:47:00.000-04:002006-05-09T16:47:00.000-04:00I found Randy's comment on my post about believing...I found Randy's comment on my post about believing again to be very insightful. I don't understand much about the idea of attachment, except that the more I am willing to let go of my needs - the need to belong, the need to be understood, the need to be valued for what I am, rather than devalued for what I am not - the more I am able to get something out of my experience in church.<BR/><BR/>Even the bad experiences can bring about wonderful, humbling insights. I'll be blogging about one of those in the next day or two.<BR/><BR/>I think the key to getting along as an active bench-sitter with non-congruent beliefs is being open to whatever happens to come along, and trusting your own instincts.<BR/><BR/>You have good instincts, Square Peg. Whatever you decide, you'll be fine.Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07636304888031546405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-1147201852606859792006-05-09T15:10:00.000-04:002006-05-09T15:10:00.000-04:00Thanks for the link, Enochville. It was interesti...Thanks for the link, Enochville. It was interesting (and helpful) to read all of the different perspectives and opinions from people with different religious backgrounds.<BR/><BR/>For me, the whole "should I stay (sort of) or should I go" dilemna is incredibly complex. As I've read about the experiences of people in a similar situation on various online forums, the whole "integrity" issue seems to come up over and over again.<BR/><BR/>For some people, a sense of personal integrity compels them to leave the church immediately and completely after they stop believing--regardless of the costs to themselves or their families. For others, personal integrity means staying involved in the church, even if that means living an extremely difficult double life, to preserve family relationships. <BR/><BR/>Who's right? Who has more personal integrity? I don't know. Maybe the answer is different for every person and every situation.<BR/><BR/>I do think that anyone who insists that the only honorable thing to do after you lose your belief in the church is resign your callings, stop participating in all ordinances, and leave the church immediately and completely are, well, wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-1147192521161823452006-05-09T12:35:00.000-04:002006-05-09T12:35:00.000-04:00Thank you for sharing your struggle. I am includin...Thank you for sharing your struggle. I am including a link to a discussion I had with an online community about whether I should stay in the LDS community for a little while longer, or go ahead and get out as soon as I found that I could no longer believe. Perhaps some of their comments might be helpful.<BR/>http://tinyurl.com/hnmswHüffenhardthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15721254732982582835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-1147153215448979562006-05-09T01:40:00.000-04:002006-05-09T01:40:00.000-04:00I never thought I would consider myself a heretic ...I never thought I would consider myself a heretic either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11231724.post-1147153157533808342006-05-09T01:39:00.000-04:002006-05-09T01:39:00.000-04:00Very insightful. I hope that whatever journey you...Very insightful. I hope that whatever journey you take it will be right for you. BTW, I listened to your podcast and thoroughly enjoyed it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com